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Re: DASA/UKW Meeting
Its about time you premadonnas or should I say twats, started talkin again. It’s good to see the banter starting to flow freely once more.
Below is the suggested time and venue for the DASA / UKW meeting.Invited are :-
Ken, Mark, Kev, Jason, Dave, Phil, & yours truly
PLACE HOLIDAY INN XPRESS JUNCTION 5 ON M74 WHICH IS WITHIN STRATHCLYDE COUNTRY PARK ,ON FRIDAY 8TH APRIL AT 9.00/10.15AMany probs post it here so we can get it sorted.
Sean
P.S. by the way your not a real twat till you have broardband and I dont get mine until May the 4 th so that would make me a pre twat.
Re: Lofra
Dave Tunnicliff also called on me to work for them but it’s nothin to get excited about as the volumes are very low.
Sean
Re: DASA/UKW Meeting
We have to be careful when breakin news items that we are not being used by the real arseholes of this trade i.e. the likes of trubshaw and ince
they may not come out with it themselves but you can be sure they’ll use others to spread their poison for them.No one agrees with workin for less money but if you are heavily committed to one main work provider and have engineers to find both work and wages for then what real choice do you have.
It may very well promt you to go lookin’ elsewhere to find an alternative source of work but what do you do in the interim, or if you are unable to find any other work.
It can be very easy to pontificate as to what others should do when we dont have their responsibilities.
Del
Re: Lest We Forget…
Hey guy’s c’mon this is sean your talkin’ too here not only do I look like an Elephant but I have got the same memory as one too.
When you were all still in DASA and thought that it was possoible with some radical strategies to start to save it, who was at your side every step of the way.And lets be totally honest here, if Mark and Jason had not let Kev down so badly we would be now be looking at a completely different dasa today as we then had the power and momentum to change it for the better.
I only Discovered the real story just after last christmas when you decided to let me in on the full story.
Their lack of support for a fellow councillor was disgusting and they should have done a dam site more than they did. When I knew the full score it was my full intention to make a serious issue of it at council and seek for some reparation to be made to him.
It was only at Kev’s direct request due to legal constraints that I did not persue this.
You can now see what I mean when I say that I feel like I am going into the Lions den every time I suggest at either UKW OR DASA working with the other.
I believe that this is a trade, I believe that the engineers we send out on job’s are every bit as skilled as an Electrician, Carpenter, Plumber, Brickie etc. It is actually my belief that in a lot of cases that we are more skilled as we have to work on such a wide range of products and technologies.
Yet the payments we recieve in no way reflect this. So the only way to begin to do something about it is to start with a trade association. and get it to push the case for it’s members to be recognised as Tradesmen.
I know that there is a mountain to climb I also realise that there are some dinosuars as passengers on the only vehicle that can help us achieve this aim. But if it dies we will not be able to resurect it within the forseeable future.
UKW states time and time again that it has no intention of being a trade association. So who is there left to work with.
We need to encourage more people to join and get involved and we may find a few good people with some commitment to help us to move things along and improve things.
The other thing is that you need to read my post’s a little more clearly I always give credit to the efforts and ideas you have given to dasa in the past.
If we do nothing then we will end up with even bigger tosspots in charge of dasa with no one within it’s organisation to challenge or question them.
Remember they say that evil only exists because good people stand by and do nothing. It would appear that the same fate may await dasa.
Sean
Re: More Optimization
Thank F**K for that as We still dont have broardband here and I have taken up knitting to pass the time as I wait for the pages to change.
Del
Re: First Post In An Undiscovered Country
Thanks for the responses guy’s.
It’s just that I am trying to get across the point that we have to somtimes work with people, who in other circumstances we would’nt piss on if they were on fire.
A few classic examples are :- even though you guy’s suffered badly under N.e.s.n. still they are invited along (and in all fairness attend) to UKW meetings.
At the last meeting at Sibson I was sat next to a guy from Merloni. A manufacturer who nearly cost me my business when they simply up and walked away. Yet I was the one defending him in the room when he was getting all the flack for decisions his bosses were responsible for.
We all know it’s not a perfect world and niether are some of the people we have to work with. I know I’m a twat when it comes to repeatin’ meself, but here I go again…… Kev’s opening address at Sibson was nothing short of insperational I hope to fuck that somebody thought to record it in our minutes of the meeting. I dont mind telling you that it made me feel proud to be a small part of what was being presented but it’s not enough to simply expound well recieved platitudes. They also have to be meant.
It seem’s somtimes that dasa as far as UKW is concerned, is viewed as public enemy number one. Let’s just remember that it is only just over a year since it fucked off Chris Hayter who was an absolute control freak who did even less for the organisation than the poor twats in charge of it now.
To be fair let’s just review what has happened in that year.1) The Rochford report was commissioned and reported at AGM
2) The constitution is under review
3) The code of practice is also under review and appears on the next agenda
4) In the Rochford report Dasa was charged to make stronger links with manufacturers. Since the AGM not only have we talked to Amdea But we have managed to get most of them to sign up as associate members. Whatever their motives this did not happen when C.H. was in control
5) Dasa had a well attended and interesting AGM at York With an excellent corgi situation overview presented by a guest training firm. They even had a work provider making appologies from the floor as to how members had been treated in the past.
6) They have commissioned a directory of trade members and associated firms to be compilled.
7) Orbit was relaunched
8) National Qualification organisational bodies meetings have been attended.
9) Approaches to UKW for a closer working relationship have been made.
meeting planned for April 05Now you ask me is that enough ? or is the speed at which it happens good enough ? The answer to both is a definate no.
But even you guy’s have to admit it is a vast improvment on what went on before when C.H. stymeed anything from happening just in case it meant any more work for him, even though that twat was being paid.
A lot of what has already been done is as a direct result of your input with ideas and assistance but you cannot expect their to be a dasa rule for ukw and a different one for everybody else. As you are the first ones to bash them over the head with their own rule book and well they know it.
To change the billing arrangements will require a proposal to be put to council and voted on before it can be amended. This cannot be done on the whim of an officer or even Mark himself.
Remember at Sibson you stated that it was UKW’s intention to join dasa as an associate member. Can you not see that they will be asking questions at the AGM when they see that this has not been done because you were quibiling over a few months payments, It wont do too much for UKW’s creability will it ?
Perhaps this oversight is a proposal that UKW can put forward to council when they join. When they can then show that they have suffered from it themselves, as victims always tend to get more support than critics in my experience.
Sean
Re: Question For The DASA Bods
If the last few meetings are anything to go by then the world and it’s dog will be at the AGM so dont worry about Walter telling anybody anything
as you would be doing the telling yourselves.Sean
Re: First Post In An Undiscovered Country
You guy’s have got to remember that you are about two light years ahead of me with regards what is about to break. The meeting may prove to be surplus to requirements once the mail shot is out there and you can start to see the reaction to it.
I am not complaining as you have a commercial enterprise to protect and we have all seen that when news is handled badly or released before it is ready then considerable damage that can ensue.
My only motive wether it is accepted or not is to try keep both organisations talking and working together for the common good of the trade.
The biggest enemy we have no matter how good an idea is that most people are apathetic, you have to practically drag people kicking and screaming to take onboard ideas that are benificial to them.
A classic example is e-jobs where all the silly buggers have to do is to submit a few details to get free advertising and chargeable work in one stroke and the silly twats cant be bothered to fill out a form.
The reason is that they are more worried about what you might make than they themselves. Now before you shoot me down I know that you are making jack shit out of it at this point in time but I just give it as an illustration of the mind set of some of the people that UKW was set up to help.
For all it’s failings and they are many Dasa at the very least comprises of members who are willing to put their money where their mouth is and at least show a degree of committment to wanting to improve things.
That is not to say that there are some who see it as a way of being at the head of the line when there is the chance of any new work, Myself included.I keep banging on about the fact that more and more of the work out there seems to be corporate work for any firm with more that two engineers and that ratio seems to be increasing year on year.
UKW should therefore have a sphere of influence within the trade association of the trade from which it sprung. It would be far easier to change things from within than on the outside.
You somtimes have to take a step back and realise that it looks a little strange that at a time when most of the work providers and more latley most of the manufacturers, seem to be applying for associate membership that UKW has yet to join and I’m sorry but just because you have been asked for £250 which is the normal rate for an associate members even halfway through the year. This is peanuts, I think as have you, in the past that this figure should be double, you see your rejection of this demand as being frugal, most will see it as being petty.
The time will also arrive that when UKW starts to make money from all the hard work that has gone into it (and rightly so IMHO) Then its motives will be called into question and used against it. You have already reached the point where you have had to go VAT registered.
I point these things out now, so that we have developed a response to be ready for it when it happens.
I have already tried to explain that some in Dasa are a lot more thin skinned than you seem to realise, the name calling that goes on in the W.R. that you see as knockabout banter is not taken that way I can assure you. We really dont need it and it is part of the reason that we are not gettin’ the traffic we once had.
I am the first to say that UKW plays a crucial role in improving the lot of the indi in our trade but let’s no think that we are omnipitant and therefore incapable of working with others who may seem to have less of a vision of how things can be improved. Remember us dull and ignorant people have our story too.
I know I always seem to be the fly in the ointment but if all i did was to blow rainbows up your arse then I dont think I would be doin’ my job.
The meeting is set for 9.00 a.m before the council meeting I’ll post more details as get them confirmed.
Sean
Re: DASA/UKW Meeting
To save a bit of time and a load of phone calls can we arrange a meeting for the Thursday night in Glasgow (i.e. the night before the Council meeting)
Between Mark, Ken, Jason, Kev, Phil, Dave, and I To clear the air and see if there is a way for us all to work together for the benifit of the trade
and all our members.I have suggested Phil as I think John has had to step back until his position re Dasa is a little more clear.
We all had an excellent relationship in the war room with a great deal of mutual trust, support and sharing of information which let’s face it we all found benifical.
As we are coming into your back yard Ken, could we ask you to arrange a suitable venue and post up some details here.
Sean
Re: First Post In An Undiscovered Country
Right let’s do the maths. aprox 70 DASA members @ £60 p.a. per +vat member to sign up for twelve month subscription level membership of UKW.
= aprox £4,200 into the coffers of UKW.Not to be sneezed at. What they want to talk about is for you to list the added value you can bring to their members. Not to hard to do is it.
This is a win, win, situation as you will find that most serious players are members of both anyway so they will save themselves £60 per year.
It will introduce to UKW those who have been living under a rock for the last two years and show them that there is another organisation who are serious about bringing services that are despersatly needed to the trade.Ken I know that you are on a mission from god and want to do everything for free but just remember, this is money that has already been spent.
The only thing is that you are taking it from an organisation that is doing jack shit at the moment and moving it to one where it can do some good, whilst at the same time building up your list of full subscribing members.So you chuck them back a few hundred quid, what the hell, if you were to run this by John Hopwood you know what he would say. So take a leaf out of his book and be more of a pragmatist.
My only concern is that you have been runnin around like a blue arsed fly runnin’ yourself ragged for P&G.
I just hope to god that the deal they are offering is genuine one and that they are not just stringin’ you along and pickin’ your brains for idea’s that they could’nt dream up in a month of sunday’s.One thing they will have learnt from Sibson is that you have the ear of the trade, as the meeting was almost a who’s who directory of the industry.
If you want I’ll contact Jason or Mark to see if we can get the meeting back on and ask that they find an alternative for mr FATFUCK who’s authority to hold his present post in Dasa is questionable to say thre least
perhaps Pill Dill or Kevin Morrisey.What do you guy’s think ?
Sean
Re: First Post In An Undiscovered Country
When I spoke to Jason, back end of last week he told me that the meeting was off, as you had spoken to either him or Mark with regards UKW joining Dasa as associate members.
therefore you would be able to communicate directly to council at their meetings. I have to admit that it caught me on the back foot as I have been fighting a battle royal to get them to come cap in hand to UKW.
They were obligated to approach you, after I raised the proposition of all DASA members paying into UKW as subscribing members for the added value it would bring to their members as the vast majority of those in attendence at the last council meeting both associate and full members were of the confirmed belief that both organisations needed to work even more closley together.
Thats why I’ve been a pain in their arse by complaining that this as well as the vote that went along with it did not appear in the recored minitues of that meeting.
It is my belief that you should have left it as it was as UKW would have gained the qudos of being approached by DASA not the other way around.
To me it does’nt really matter who comes up with the goodies as long as they come. We all know that they are too slow to get anything done and when they do start to move they do not tell people what they are doing until the AGM which simply is’nt good enough.
The one thing that I do believe is that on one particular point I have to agree with somthing that Mark said and that is that “this industry is too small for us to be at one anothers throats”
UKW will continue to show by it’s deeds that it is far more effective at delivering the help and support that independant service providers need.
My only concern is that we dont alienate our intended future customers by being seen as the main detractors of DASA to who a lot of them still show strong loyalty for what ever reason god only knows.
Sibson was an incredible launch pad, we now have to capitalise on the gobsmacked expressions I saw on the majority of faces in the room.
The concilertry remarks made re Dasa in Kevins opening address showed a proffessional, inclusive and open approach Which tells me that we’ve finally got all the pieces in place.Sean
Re: Removal
Although it seems a shame as regards Jason, I can see, having been part of the presentation team at Sibson. That the effect of a well thought out strategic plan. Has far more effect when it is presented and released at a specific time and place to the trade at large. Without having first been diluted by conjecture and misrepresentation beforehand.
Whilst I tend to give people the benifit of the doubt till they prove me wrong. I can see that Jason has tended to blow hot and cold as regards UKW and it’s goals.
If you feel that I can be of any help to UKW. you only have to ask.
Sean
Re: China!
Yes I thought we might be missing an oppurtunity there if we pissed the guy off too much. O.K. so he’s a cheeky bugger but it has always been my impression that if you dont ask, you dont get.
All too often we are at the bottom of the food chain in this trade. This might be a chance to steal a march on the work.
In all the national meetings I have attended over the last year both UKW yes and DASA I hear the same cry “The chinese are coming ! The chinese are coming !”
Rather than following king Canute’s example of trying to turn back the tide. I say if we can help them and get the work first instead of last on a reasonable deal, then I say ” Let the buggers come !”
Del
