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Re: meggers
Thanks Martin
Got a copy and digested it, well done 😉
Also had time to read the thread from the beginning and good to see considerable input from several individuals, some very knowledgeable but alarmingly some very frightening 😯
Forgive me from straying slightly from the subject “meggers”One comment, which was spoken proffesionaly, was….
“Sorry about the lecture but the lack of technical depth that often appears on the forum really scares the crap out of those that have even the merest understanding of the dangers for both engineers (for want of a better word) and customers they attend let alone the impact ignorance has on fault finding” …….is extremely well said.
Up to date we as a trade and various threads on this forum tend to have discussed safety issues with a less than convincing argument. Some would have it that we as individuals have a limited responsibility to our own and customer safety and to a certain extent that could be correct. There is talk of “grey areas”, sadly there are plenty. What level of testing and how far do we go? Are we only responsible for the appliances we work on and/or the household installation? Again, a grey area with some of us.
Basically we should not accept the grey areas. Testing is imperative, both of the appliance and the household wiring that the appliance is connected toBefore any of you start back at me on that comment please feel free to pull your neck in first and understand the sentence. What is the point in testing an appliance if there is a fault in the household wiring and no route for an earth fault to go? In a court of law you may or may not get away with it.
My next point is “what level of competence should we accept for his trade?” My personal opinion is that it should be the best and equal to anyone in any electrical industry. It is obvious by the regular questions on this forum that there is several individuals who are not up to a basic electrical/mechanical standard. It is not for me to say is it right or wrong to keep educating them as UKWG is a open forum for anyone who can produce trade evidence, nor is it up to the forum to discriminate against them.
I was/still? an electrician and to be quite honest I could train monkeys to wire houses its not that hard, as for the design and testing with associated paperwork well that is a different question. Saying that, the basic knowledge is readily available online to all aspects of the above statement. An individual with a little research can quite easily understand what should be required to be very competent in testing the basics suitable for our industry, but by some of the comments on this forum either individuals either can’t be bothered to go the extra mile to learn or they do not and may never understand what is required. Are they in the right career?
It may be the wrong place to make my statements (UKWG) but it is a forum for our industry and I suppose the only ones that I am offending (not intentially) are the ones that need to “wake up and smell the coffee” and get their act together.I don’t agree that there should be legislation for our industry as this usually ends up with individuals having to pay for the privilege, but it would be wrong for us also turn a blind eye to what is going on in the trade. Fortunately many thousands of repairs are carried out daily, with or without safety tests being done and few individuals get hurt.
Should we be self-regulating when there are individuals who couldn’t give a toss? Is it any wonder that we struggle for manufacturers technical info? They only need to look at arguments like this confirm what they say “Competent Persons”
I can see the day that government will see this and create another quango and pull our industry into their fold, taxable of course.
The “megger” thread looks to have had the effect of getting the ball rolling it has highlighted problems, which as a trade we need to address. Martin, Your pdf is excellent and a good basic starter.
Manufacturers of the various test instruments, meggers etc will quite readily provide good basic information on how to use their equipment correctly, and how many of us have them asked for it?
Rant over 😉 please don’t bully me Iv’ e got a head ache
Re: meggers
Part P special locations and Kitchens, my suggestion is generalisation of “Good Practice in Kitchens” which I take to mean anything thats not right 😕
Re: meggers
Martin wrote:
Techi wrote:
. Without regs in any specific trade you do tend to get a load of “incompetents” but fortunately due to the many variants our trade demands of the individual they are very quickly ‘weedled out’. And not by others in the trade but by their own customers.
Over the last decade or so the trade has settled down and for the most part in that time only the good have survived. Having said that and in the wake of the recent ‘recession’ those that have found themselves out of a job and yet have successfully fixed their wives or neighbours washing machine suddenly figure they can possibly make a living by going self-employed fixing washing machines?
This last week I have come across “a neighbour” (electrician apparently) repairing a HP td, stat kit, replaced heater panel with only 4 screws, condenser blocked water on the element, so did he use a megger? Customer called me in to sort it out. Did the repair and told him not to ring me again, his loss.
Local appliance shop owner has now decided to do repairs, previous trade builder!
Two calls where people have tried to save brass by having a go.
Two ovens fitted by kitchen fitters that require 13 amp fusing, both wired straight into cooker connection point which is fused at 30 amp in the consumer unit. Not to mention Part P. contravention
I doubt that a megger is likely will be top priority for this lot. Most wont have clue what one is, so regulations aint gonna stop them.
My point is that all and sundry are having a go as have been from time armorial so any amount of “weedling out ” will be have little effect as human nature (and making a buck) will feed the constant feed of “have a goes”Re: worlds strongest beer. our very own…. he gets everywhe
Penguin45 wrote:
Highly misunderstood stuff, beer. It’s been helping ugly people have sex for generations.:p45:
So thats what goes on at UKWG meetings :rolls:
Re: You know the house you’re called to is posh when……..
And a ghostly shadow painted on the door and wall :rotl:
Re: Its Official Then
Martin wrote:
maltheviking wrote:
Try pushing spade connectors off, long nose pliers or a broad screwdriver bladeWhat’s that got to do with switching machines off at night in Scotland Mal?
Nowt realy Martin its that “leavemetogetonwithit” he likes to go of on a tangent :rolls: 😆
Talking of angles its good to see you and Ken giving good and sound inputRe: Hotpoint 9520 door seal
Problem solved I fitted the HP1803 that Chris suggested. When I compared it to the one I took off it’s identicle, obviously been changed before with a copy seal no wonder I was confused.com
Held on with a band and a spring Jim 😉Re: Its Official Then
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:
lee8 wrote:
Remember when rewiring use the crimping tool and don`t twist the copper…….. and never never wiggle connectors when removing them.
Can you unpack that a bit for me? I was taught not to twist but don’t know why not. As for not wiggling, how the hell else can you get them off sometimes? A straight pull with pliers can also damage them. And what would you use if you didn’t use a crimp?
Mike.
Twisting creates a “screw” and also increases the CSA, a little bit of movement the CSA decreases and the connector becomes slack creating bad electrical connection and heat if carrying current, is my understanding (unless you know different)
Shame that a lot of connectors are steel, two disimilar metals and all that.Try pushing spade connectors off, long nose pliers or a broad screwdriver blade
Re: Hotpoint 9520 door seal
iadom wrote:Well not quite, 😉
The original seal on the early 1800’s was a black rubber seal, 161018 circa 1973 to 1976/7.
This was changed to a 161394 Grey rubber seal 1976/1981/2.
This was changed to the 168260 on the early 9500 series 1982/3 on. The 168260 does not feature in any 1800 series manual that I have going back to 1973.
It was the same basic shape as the previous seals and was completely interchangeable.
After this came several variations on the same basic seal. The 1600151 which had a different inner profile to accommodate a large stainless steel ring that slotted between the seal and the drum front.
The 1600125 which is the really awkward one to fit as it has two lips, one of which has to be folded inside the drum front, and the 168908. There was also a 169146 introduced in 1990 as part of a facelift.Then came the 1600072 which has since morphed into the 1603006.
Whats an Anorak ??? 😆 8)
Nice one Jim
Definitly not 1600072,1603006,169146,1600151,1600125, sadly I have some of these in stock. 168260 still listed with Connect 😕
Anorak, you will need one up here in Cumbria, snorkel would come in handy as would a helicopter to get around, most of the bridges are closed for inspection (the ones that are still standing that is)Re: Hotpoint 9520 door seal
Evening Chris, you not out at the pub quiz on a Sunday?
I will try the HP1803 as Mpart are OOS. of 168908
