[Lawrence]

Re: Truly Independent……

Adie you can be as bigger PITA as you want 😆 .
Let me put my cards on the table ,I don’t have an issue with standing alongside UKW ,Using their logo ,Making use of their resources ,promoting them where possible .
Why…Because we both want the same thing ,A better deal for the independent’s ,UKW has been a proxy (not a typo 🙂 ) TA anyway ,So why not invest in the goodwill that is there already and push the WTA forward .
Where we are independent is in the fact that our council is not soley made up of UKW directors ,it is made up of a group of independents who said “Right we will put our wotsits on the line and get something done ”
As I said the other day I don’t think the people that matter i.e the members & The consumers will give two figs with regard to the logo being the same ,or some crossover between the two as long as they see results .
Obviously some may disagree and I don’t have a problem with that ,let’s have the conversations come to a consensus & then we can push forward .

Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Spreading the word

aqualectric wrote:
The application form, (apart from the obvious database type questions) should include a section for the applicant to state what they think is affecting the industry and their concerns for their future. Also their opinion on how to address the issues raised. This could act as a barometer for the sole traders who often moan at the trade counter but are not actively seeking or knowing how to change their situation.That’s my thoughts. Feedback please??
Steve.

Great idea ,hadn’t thought of that
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Spreading the word

I had a converstaion with John Hopwood today,And he has mentioned an idea that I feel has legs & I have sought to put some flesh on the bone’s .
The one thing that we all agree on is the ID card idea,why don’t we send an application form with a welcome to WTA letter to every member of the WTA asking them to return it with two passport photo’s and there info .
They in return get an ID card FOC everyone thereafter £10 per go,& a membership certificate for their office wall,plus a quarterly newsletter.
The WTA name is then spread far and wide & the members get an instant bang for their buck.
the outlay to the TA is for the card machine,cards ,lanyards (with WTA on them) ,inks ,ribbons etc ,I have checked with Ken and it comes in at just under £3K plus vat .
After that it is just sundries as needed
We could also do a piece in something like ERT along the lines of “look at us we are being responsible engineers ,and supporting the consumer”
It is also a quick and easy way of getting the WTA concept and brand out into the big wide world quickly ,in one project we will do more than DASA have done in years and establish ourselves as being serious .
we then have a credibility to go and deal with other issues once we have all agreed on what they are and the best course of action .
Something that Ken mentioned at Sibson is long term if the government decided that the whitegoods industry needed regulating and came knocking on the door we can say “what you mean like this ” and it could mean that we could be involved from the start.
But for this to work we must all agree ,so can I have feedback from everyone even if it’s a yes I agree,no I dont or something more
I am prepared to word a welcome to ….message for the letter ,if someone can devise an application form ,unless someone has one lurking 😉
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Subscribers ?

Kirk wrote:Hi Chris on the UKW subscriber list.

Kirk.
Hi Kirk
I subscribe ,and have always done so ,can you point me in the direction of the list you refer to
Regards
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Retired members

I don’t see a problem ,will we need to recognise that he is non-active with regard to the charter ?
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Issues to be addressed.

washdoctor wrote:Sorry guys, but as good and bad had to be addressed, I have to raise a few issues that have arisen for me the more that I think about the association.
Below is what I’ve copied from the General Trade forum. I now find myself in a position where I only agree with some of the below. For the benefit of the committee, I will point out what I agree with, what I don’t and why.

Honesty ,brilliant just what’s needed ,remember we said that this thing will grow organically ,we need to discuss and adapt as we go

washdoctor wrote: 2) Spares pricing.
Disagree.
This (IMO) will split us in opinion. Some of us carry out work on behalf of a Manufacturer or WP, others don’t. Ultimately, for those that do, it doesn’t matter what the spares are charged at because you charge back at that rate to you. However, I can understand why this will be for the benefit of traders that do not do work for WP’s because it can increase their profit margins.
My main concern is that the trader to the public doesn’t really stand to loose anything by upsetting suppliers or manufacturers, whereas it concerns me that the service providers to Manufacturers and WP’s may get some backlash and may affect working relations that in many cases, at the moment are very good.

The price of parts is the price of parts ,unless you do work for a WP that gives you van stock ,the cost of the spares does affect you ,the value of the stock you carry and have paid for still comes off your bottom line ,especially if you end up with perfectly good parts you have to bin as no one will take them back –think Connect/NESN with Philco,Zanussi ,and Mastercare ,Hoover,Merloni sadly the list goes on …..If we as a TA can even change the prices just a bit by highlighting the inconsistency of parts prices then that will surely benefit everyone,and if there is a good relationship with WP’s or manufacturers ,there should be a way forward

washdoctor wrote: 3) Specific CORGI issues
Partially agree.
I do agree that the lengths of training are a bit OTT and more can be done to help people obtain these certifications without lowering the level of training. This does need to be addressed, but on the other side of the coin, the Corgi registration is something that should not be easily obtained, for safety reasons alone if nothing else. I think that a Corgi registered gas engineer should have the basic knowledge of flue systems, meter installations, ventilation requirements etc so these types of faults can be identified if present. If lets say a cooker engineer entered a 1 bed flat, with open flue appliances, and all sources of ventilation taped up because he doesn’t like the noise of the kids outside, the Engineer must be responsible for advising the customer of the dangers and rectify the issue. If that man was later found unconscious or worse, the Gas Engineer saying “I didn’t know, I only work on cookers, I was only there to change an FSD” wouldn’t be good enough.

As I shared at the meeting CORGI is very close to my heart at present ,I agree with the point re flues etc .
I was told that to add this experience to my body of work portfolio why didn’t I approach a gas fire installer and go out with him for a week and gain spillage test experience and flue testing ,I asked how come I couldn’t do that at the training centre ,to which the reply was you can’t come into the training centre until you have done it !! Catch 22 the criteria is just too rigid and we need some way of communicating that .

washdoctor wrote: 1) Share and develop work opportunities with each other.

Disagree.
We are all self employed. We are all responsible for bringing in the money and in some cases, responsible for other peoples incomes. Surely, by sharing work opportunities, we will be cutting our own income and capping our own growth potential?
The TA has a database of established repairers that will have signed the charter ,if a manufacturer or WP approaches it we should recommend our members for the benefit of our members .
I have actually gained from the sharing of info ,and will gladly share when I can ,If you want to know contacts then ring me and I will gladly share them ,I have learnt from bitter experience not to put all my eggs in one basket and now I spread my WP base as thinly as poss so as to minimize the risk should one decide to pull the rug .

washdoctor wrote: IMO, in the private market, we are worth a lot more than what some of us charge at the moment. Where WP’s are concerned, the rate should be balanced with quantity. For example, if a WP offered £45 per call, but only 100 calls per year, compared with another who offered £38 per call, but 300 calls per year, which would be the better deal?

But, in the private market, I think that people who are charging £25 to unblock a pump etc are doing this trade harm, as that breeds the type of customer who, 1, doesn’t value our skills because it only cost them £25 (IMO people know deep down that if they pay peanuts…. They get…..) and, 2, they will assume that they are being ‘ripped off’ next time a repairer charges £45 to fit a pump because the last guy only charged them £25. I believe that there should be a recognised pricing structure put into place that will be available for independents to look at and believe that they are worth that amount. Ultimately, it will be up to each person to tailor they’re own charges, but we should try and do away with the’ £25 for cash madam’!! I think we need to bang the don’t underestimate your value drum wherever possible ,however look at the thread on callout charges and you will see what an uphill struggle it is

washdoctor wrote:I believe in the mission statement “Support the independent Service Industry in whatever way we can” 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}, that to me means that we need to be approachable by Engineers, like myself, that needed help, and didn’t get it from DASA. I now am starting to think that this association is going to be in danger of upsetting the ‘trade big boys’ to early on and that will inevitably lead to some re-percussion somewhere. Would that be supporting the independent service industry? I think that we should firstly, be there for the independents, up and down the country, offering support and assistance with legal matters, technical issues and any trade related queries etc. Anything else, like Corgi, taking on suppliers etc IMO is something that we can look at in the very distant future with the majority backing of our members.

I think we are about to enter a golden moment in this trade ,there is an ever diminishing pool of labour from which the WP’s can draw ,the members of this trade are beginning to realise there worth ,as for getting a hard time of a WP -FACT they don’t like us talking to each other ,Think why ,FACT we have collective strength That’s why. What if someone leans on a member during our infancy do we sit back until we are more established ,no we support them

washdoctor wrote:As for the Admin of the WTA, whilst I appreciate and understand that Ken has done a HUGE amount of groundwork and has spent many hours on the WTA, I can’t see that we are going to seriously be seen as a ‘stand alone’ association if UKW are administrating the finances etc. I again believe that the WTA’s finances should be run by an appointed Treasurer, running an Independent account (With the WTA on the account name).

I still see no problem with using UKW resource ,If we are accused of being UKW –so what – we just carry on what we are doing ,once people ( the members ) see the results they won’t care who we are or aren’t affiliated too all they will see is the end result and that is what this organisation will stand or fall on it’s end results .

Adie ,I type as I talk my grammar is terrible ,and if any thing has come over as abrupt that’s NOT my style so please don’t take it that way
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: What’s the difference ?

This is a tricky one ,when I first joined I joined under an alias as I had just had the unpleasant experience of having a sheaf of my e-mails from the mailing list shoved up my nose by Jonathen Trubshaw ,telling me that as they were all derogatory towards NESN if I didn’t shuit up they would sue .
However I do wonder if we should “encourage” people to use a name where possible ,as for how we do that …
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

kwatt wrote:Well, that got results.

Three membership applications inside half an hour… none too shabby methinks. 😉

Long may it continue.

K.

😯 😯 😯

[Lawrence]

Re: The Important Stuff

kwatt wrote:My instinct is to hive it off as separate accounts from UKW and to use SAGE to do the accountancy as, frankly, it’s easy administratively to deal with that way.

I agree on both

kwatt wrote:From an administration point of view the easiest way to deal with a lot of this is I ask my accountant to sort it for us and then not worry about it as, beyond that, it’s merely a case of monitoring the ins and outs really.

Again agreed

kwatt wrote:
Sean mentioned the need to have a treasurer, I can’t see the point. If the accounts are getting handled as is and they are reported regularly to the council (for want of a better term) then I can’t see the point in burdening anyone with that title. TBH for most associations it appears to be no more than a formality really and, in any event, ultimately the person/s actually dealing with it are responsible anyways.

I agree it’s a formality but I do feel it would be good to have one person responsible ,even if only to the outside world ,Not a full blown treasurer doing the books etc.
More someone who acts as a link to outside the council on financial queries .

kwatt wrote:So here’s my suggestion, from SAGE it’s easy to print out stuff, like reams of stuff, in the form of reports, P&Ls and all that malarky to PDF or whatever so it can be dragged off whenever anyone wants it. Likewise, in about 10 minutes a complete backup can be emailed. Bank statements can be easily provided via email or whatever as well. So, I wouldn’t bother too much so long as the info is available to everyone then I can’t see the need to make any one person responsible for the moment.

see above

washdoctor wrote:I personally think that we should have a Treasurer. Firstly, (IMO) There needs to be a specific person responsible for the financial side of the WTA that we all can approach (council members and members) if needed and if anything needs clarifying.

See above

washdoctor wrote:Secondly, I agree with Ken that Sage can roll off whatever report you want at any time of day or night, and I personally don’t have any issues with UKW accountants sorting things, but as we have to be seen as a ‘stand alone’ organisation, we should employ our own accountants and banking facilities 😕 .

We spoke about independent auditors to confirm our indepenedence ,I assume the existing funds are in a separate bank account to UKW anyway ,Just a thought who are the signatories ?

washdoctor wrote:As with VAT registration, yes, I think that the WTA should be VAT registered from the start.

Agreed

Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Financial Things

So long as they support theethos of the mission statement I see no problem ,at the end of the day they need the independents to survive to survive themselves .
Go for it I say
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Fresh Footprints

evening all ,is it wrong to feel sad that Martin is away whilst all this is proceeding… 😆
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Sudbury to the Sea

I tell you what John we were traumatized after the Pub still hadn’t served our food after 2 hours 😯 .
There excuse was “they had ,had a sudden influx of canoeists ” the Pub is next to the river !and the event has happpened every year for at least 10 years on the same weekend .
Thanks for the support though will collect on Fri
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Sudbury to the Sea

well here’s the proof ,I will collect money at Sibson.
Lawrence

http://www.youtube.com/user/DAF48

[Lawrence]

Re: Servis Quartz Pressure Vessel Hose from where?

Ive used Garden hose before ,or hpt twin tub drain hose (early rubber) or motor factors I guess
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Re: Firenzi (Whirlpool) double oven

Hi John
When she called me back I tested it as you have described and it was glowing just off red ,she says not good enough ,I say it’s cured the original fault .
Could there be a variation in energy reg’s ?
I will try and get the 12nc for you
Lawrence

[Author]

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