[Del]

Re: How to become an ISE seller service agent.

We also said at the beginning that we would require :-

1) Credit Checks
2) Proof of Public liability insurance
3) A basic terms contract betwen ISE and Agent
4) Indemnity for van stocks held by agent on behalf of ISE

I dont care who does it, John or us But it should be done. I also think that the 5 units for a van stock ratio is spot on as I was thinking along similar lines myself.

We should take full advantage of the delay in the provision of vans stocks to clarify thiese requirements with the participating agents. Lets try to get it right first time.

Sean

[Del]

Re: The old ISE forum

I totally agree.

Sean

[Del]

Re: access to the ISE forum

Launching any thing, a Product, a brand, an idea, is all about confidence and credibility. We are costing ourselves both time and customers the more we allow people who have no real intention of being involved to erode others confidence and sow seeds of doubt in peoples minds.

The job is hard enough as it is with out 5 th coloumnist’s in the ranks. Sorry but I have to agree with Kev on this one.

Sean

[Del]

Re: Todays CDA meeting.

All sounds o.k but I still have a few questions, so an ISE bosard meeting ASAP is definately in order.

Here’s a few just to get the ball rollin.

1) What happens if we get a endemic failure on the product.

2) Do CDA still have a responsibility, If so what percentage intervention rate applies. Remember CDA are the original purchaser as far as BEKO are concerned

3) If we are covered can we please have it written into a contract this time as I dont want to see any more nasty surprises or goalpost shifting.

4) Has John been able to do a detailed intervention forcast to allow for us to cover our collective arses, or was this figure arrived at on the fly at the meeting. We all remember that Zanussi came unstuck with 5×5

5) Is it our intention to spread some of this risk via the likes of D&G or JTM

6) How quickly are we able to get…. Spares Prices, van stocks, Tech info

7) Are we now responsible totally, for spares distribution, stores and logistics

8) In the ISE forum we have led people to believe that most of these responsibilities lay with CDA as was the case up until this point.
Is it suggested that we allow people to continue to believe this.
If so I cant help feeling that this will get out at some stage and bite us on the arse.

Sean

[Del]

Re: ISE Meeting(s) 22/3 23/3

Dave_Conway wrote:

kwatt wrote:
Andy, trying to defend his corner even when he’s pointed out to be wrong or on the wrong track.

WTF is up with this guy ?

He’s cancelled his order, wants no further part in ISE and still he asks stupid fecking questions.

He’s getting on my tits now 😉

Dave.

And this comes from uk whitegoods answer to Jobe, It’s time to close the ISE forum to only those guy’s involved in it and that includes Martin.
My take on it is..’If you dont want to be part of the success then FFS Dont be part of the problem ! ‘

At first I thought Andy 2’s concerns were genuine but I am becoming more convinced that someone else is pulling his strings. He is a sneaky little twat who tried to cancell his order directly with CDA without telling anyone.

We are fighting the double battle of trying to build confidence in a new brand whilst at the same time being undermined by our supposed own supporters.

I might be able to accept it from guy’s who have put thier money where there mouth is but not from gobs**tes.

There will always be those that we will never be able to convince even if we had a gold plated Miele on offer.

If we are not careful we will even start to see the stalwarts pull away if we do not close the ISE forum to those who genuinely want to see it succeed. In time we can use thier success to bring others onboard.

Sean

[Del]

Re: Sold The First One

One point that a lot seem to forget is that ukw is a very broad church. We have some members that are the owners of multi engineer operations, whilst the vast majority are one man and van businesses.

The multi engineer operators tend to attract most of the commercial work as they are usually able to provide greater coverage and skill sets for manufacturers and other work providers.

The whole ethos behind what we are trying to do is to be as inclusive as possible, and not leave anyone on the outside

We are all aware that manufacturers are not helping the independents with things like technical support and spares pricing. We are even now beginning to see sealed tubs and more recently, laptop dependent software repairs to modern electronic control systems being introduced.

All of this is specifically designed to push the indies out of the trade altogether unless you happen to be their appointed service provider.

So what do we do ? Bury our heads in the sand and pretend that things
might get better ? Or work together to form our own brand that is designed to allow a more fair and equitable deal to be provided to the independent.

A deal that will allow the indies to have greater control over their own destinies.

A deal that does not exclude the sole trader.

A deal that comes with training and technical support.

A deal that allows us to provide a product that was specifically chosen to be readily accessible and serviceable.

I have to admit that it is more than a little puzzling to see members
being far quicker to put their faith in existing manufacturers who’s only ambition is to put them out of business. Rather than trust fellow members of their own community who are in the same boat as themselves.

Does sh*t happen ? of course it does, ask people who bought a Homark appliance, or a Rover car, or an extended warranty from Power House.

We are not asking to be treated any differently from any other brand but if the concept behind ISE is drowned at birth then we will never know the opportunities and potential we could have achieved.

Some of you seem to think that this one appliance is the whole story when in truth it is only the beginning.

For us to build the ISE brand we need your support which in turn will enable us to source other products and partners with even better deals for you and your customers. To achieve that we have to prove that we can shift product in volume and build a trading history.

At the end of the day it’s up to you guy’s to help us to make it happen. It is my belief that together we can move mountains if we can only learn to belive in ourselves perhaps thats the real logg jam here.

Sean Delaney

[Del]

Re: ISE Meeting(s) 22/3 23/3

Dave i think i posted the main points of the cda meeting to you along with ken and kev the other day via e-mail well my take on it anyway.

I think we are going to have to get the deal that was explained to us by John at the previous meeting when he represented CDA back on track and as agreed on that occasion.

Therefore do we have a copy of the agreement from that day so that i can have a look at it because it is becoming apparent that we need to keep firm records of any meetings we have. I would suggest that we even tape meetings in future to have a verbatum record for any future reference.

We are seeing the sh*t thats being blow up in the ISE Forum at the moment and we should not be in the position of having to defend a deal that we thought was done and dusted.

I think that it might be a good idea to print out a few selected posts from the forum to take along to the meeting that is to beheld between ISE & CDA. As it will stengthen our position on the reaction from our potential agents to the fact that initial committments may not be met i.e. van stocks
or total committment to five year free parts.

The sad thing is that the guys see this appliance as being the whole deal and not just the start of something a lot bigger.

I am now beginning to think that it may be questionable wether we should have created an ISE forum or not as most of the postings this weekend at least are very negative while we are so open we seem to be fighting OUR OWN SUPOSED SUPPORTERS

[Del]

Re: Xmas do 2006

Crackin idea Kev but just the ones who have stuck by us through thick n thin. There are a few who’s support has dwindled & faded away over recent months.
I dont need to mention names but it would obviously be made up from members who are mainly subscribers.

Sean

[Del]

Re: Sold The First One

Hi Jeremy

Sean here the guy who called round your house with Rob and Drank all your coffee and smoked half your fags.

The one who came and pitched the idea to you a member of a free to use website that was created by the indies for the indies and has recieved glowing universal praise from the guy’s it was designed to help,support and promote.

We have done nothing since day one of this community other than try to facilitate the ideas and suggestions and propositions that have been put forward either on the site or those debated at the free to attend national meetings that we have put on evry six moths since the site began explicitly for the members of that community.

You expressed an interest in the idea of us all working together to improve our lot as independent domestic appliance repairers.

Not one single brand that you could mention in the history of this trade has ever treated the indies with as much respect. Mention one brand that has tried to help and support our trade as much as the guys within this community have.

No one is holding a gun to your head to take part. If you feel it is not for you at this point in time then that is both your perogative and decision.

The fact still remains that the deal we put on the table will be honoured.

Have we been delayed ? YES

Will it be sorted ? YES

Will ISE be the most respected and supported brand by the indies in the UK ? YES

Why ? Because they created it !

We can wait for the few doubting thomas’s to follow on behind in the tracks of the pioneers, and when they catch up we’ll still be magnanimous enough to welcome them. 😉

Sean

[Del]

Re: Problem with repairer

Spoke to Carl yesterday on the way down to the meeting and he said that the original job was not in the name of Gill but the partner.

He also said that it was a special order from electrue which was out of stock and that he had left a message with the partner of Customer Gill
which he believes was not passed on. He was collecting the part in person yesterday as he atended the meeting at CDSL. I see from the previous post that the call to complete the repair has already been booked.

Further to that he has given us his personal direct number ( For our use only, he stressed) if there is any other problem in future we wish to enquire about. 0121 2880679

I’m sure we are all only too well aware that messages do not get passed on and that there are occasaions when there are protracted delays in obtaining spares especially from CDSL as before now my lads have turned up to jobs only to be greeted with the fact that the appliance had been exchanged in the time it took to aquire the spare.

Sean

[Del]

Re: Problem with repairer

I have left a message with Jim Lawrence for him to ring me as he used to be their commercial manager. I know he is no longer with them but he might at least have a number that we can contact them on.

Sean

[Del]

Re: The Big Bad Wolf

At the very least it may make the big guns stop and think about the risk of putting all their eggs in one basket.

If a company the size of EAC cant make the job pay (and let’s face it they were getting better rates than any of us) then how the hell are we supposed too.

We are already working in the background trying to make the industry wake up to the skills shortage.

Another thing to think about is that even if EAC are bought out at the eleventh hour it would have to be by a manufacturer as they would be the only ones with enough money to do it and what manufacturer would want their products serviced by another manufacturer ?

We may or may not get a little extra work out of this but the most important thing of all is that it has happened and may start to get the message across that the service side of this trade is in danger of implodeing.

The only alternative would be for every repair to be a swap out and believe it or not delivery men work out more expensive than engineers.

Sean

[Del]

Re: ISE

Now if I’d said that it would be a case of

‘Sean STFU !’

🙄

[Del]

Re: Speaking of British Gas…

Functional checks on electric chairs, that’s interestin’ !

lol

D.

[Del]

Re: So what are the fundamental problems in this industry?

Problems facing Service providers

Most of the problems in today’s domestic appliance service and repair trade are largely due to the fact that our industry has been subjected to a sustained period of under investment.

This has had several causes but it must be said that the single biggest factor is as a direct result of the ever reducing prices of finished goods. Where as this on the face of it might seem to be the great panacea for the consumer it has brought with it , it’s own problems.

In the ever increasing drive to provide cheaper appliances, the build quality of appliances, particularly at the budget end of the trade is abysmal to the point where only a few short years ago an average life expectancy for a mid market washing machine was eight to ten years. That average life has now been reduced to less than five years.

The Service providers have been subjected to a lower perceived value of their service by a combination of lower priced finished goods whilst at the same time the cost of spares for these same products from the manufacturers, have risen dramatically.

This has led to more and more appliance repairs becoming less viable and uneconomical. Which in turn, has led to a much greater usage of landfill sites, in which to dispose of these products.

To illustrate the effect of this on the service provider in real terms, it might be helpful to inform you that during a recent exercise by UK Whitegoods ltd to contact all independent domestic appliance repairers in several studies throughout Scotland and England via a data base purchased through Yellow pages. Our studies have shown that within the last two years nearly 20{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of those companies contacted by UK Whitegoods had either:-

A) Ceased Trading
B) Retired
C) Gone into Receivership

The situation is compounded by the governments own figures, taken from the Office of National Statistics that the average age of a service technician is 54 Yrs, of age. It is patently obvious that a skill shortage on an unprecedented scale is almost upon us. This is even more worrying when you consider that over 70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all Manufacturers repairs are presently carried out by Independent Service Providers.

During the last few years we have also seen the increasing growth of extended warranties from various sources (Retailers, Catalogues, Insurance Companies) this has also added it’s own difficulties to many Service Providers. Firstly there is the fact that due to take up of these warranties there has been a marked reduction in chargeable work over recent years, which was traditional used to help offset the less profitable in guarantee work for many manufacturers.

These extended warranties are often administered by companies who then control large work volumes and require many S.P. to become multi branded or indeed any brand, so where as once upon a time the S.P. would have had strong links with three or four manufacturers and had built up a unique expertise and technical knowledge on certain brands this has in many cases been diluted in the multitude of brands and products that S.P.’S are now expected to service and carry both technical information and spares for.

Independent Service providers are finding it increasingly difficult to obtain technical information from Manufacturers who once used to supply the trade at a cost with detailed workshop manuals including circuit diagrams, component function, and step charts.

We are now lucky with many Manufacturers to get an exploded diagram of parts. I believe this to be largely due to the large increase in model ranges and the short shelf life of many recent models.

Manufacturers are now starting to require the use electronic diagnostic equipment to
Diagnose faults and even reprogram electronic control systems, which is fine if the bulk of your work is from one manufacturer but if you are required to do multibrand servicing as many Service Providers are today then the cost is exorbitant in equipping staff.

The obvious answer too many of these problems is that of investment. Investment in Staff and training, investment in I.T. equipment and technologies but no matter how much we train, up skill, or equip ourselves there is still no substitute for the experienced field technician passing on his years of hard earned work experience.

The problem being that most of the work that is being carried out today is on such tight profit margins controlled by work providers, administrators, and manufacturers that there is simply not enough slack in the system to have a paid apprentice accompany a field service technician to acquire those skills.

Another relevant problem is that as all jobs are at different locations the cost of insuring a young trainee to drive a vehicle is again an unrealistic proposition for many
Potential employers.

To summarise the situation, as a trade we have already reached the precipice. As service providers we are faced with the fact the remuneration for our skills and services are undervalued and apparently inextricably linked to the reducing cost of appliances. Even though the cost’s of providing our service is rising exponentially year on year, for items such as fuel, wages, premises, rates, insurances. Therefore it is little wonder that people are leaving the trade in their droves.

Sean Delaney

[Author]

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